Friday, May 25, 2007

New FSBO on 26th

New: This house has a "For Lease" sign in front, from an agent. It is 3 bed/3 baths, 2,283 SF, asking $8,500/month. The description includes, "Fabulous kitchen island w/ss appliances. Kitchen and formal dining open to yard and pool ... 1st showing Tues., May 29th"

______________________

I'd like to share Frank's comment from this morning. (Did I get the right photo? I didn't see a for-sale sign.)

Last weekend, there was a FSBO sign posted at the southwest corner of 26th and Alta in Santa Monica (in front of 2520 Alta) with an email address of northofmontana@gmail.com. This is the automated response that I received:

We will be selling our house in the next few months, sometime after the end of the Franklin school year.
We have two current appraisals, less than 90 days old, both showing a value of $3 million, as is.
We do not want to do any maintenance, painting or upgrading just to have you do it over again to your own tastes.
We do not need to involve a realtor, and would expect a real estate attorney to handle our end of the deal. Should you choose to involve a realtor, you will bear any costs associated with that decision.
We would be less than likely to sell to a developer or realtor, and would not be happy about dealing with someone who is too greedy or pushy. There are very few houses listed in our neighborhood, and ours is unique.
We would rather sell our house to a family that can appreciate it, our neighborhood and our school.
This has been our home since we bought it a long time ago and it has never been listed.
We would expect to have private showings sometime next month. In order to qualify for a showing you will have to at some point provide proof of financial viability to our accountant, banker, or attorney.
If you are truly a qualified buyer and are interested in going further into this process, please feel free to respond via a follow up e-mail.
We will be replying as time allows but we are, like so many of us, very busy.
Thank You.

This is an interesting Realtor-free FSBO strategy. But is the house worth $3M? It appears nice, an original 2-story north of Montana, but not fixed up and on busy 26th, when the new 528 26th's final price was only $2,850K.

21 comments:

Craig said...

Interesting. What was the address of this place?

This place is not worth $3 million in the condition it is in and in this location. North of Montana tear downs on good streets (i.e. not busy 26th) are listed at just over $2 million (as you have shown on this blog previously). At first glance I would say that this place would be listed at about $2.8 with a realtor and maybe sell for $2.5-7 or so.

Another interesting FSBO that I recently mentioned is the empty lot on the 900 block of 25th street (1.5 blocks south of Montana). I called the number on the large FSBO banner on the fence and got the message machine at a dentist office (American Family Dental or something like that). It even said the guy's name on the machine and it matched what I found on the property records. I may call back to see what the asking price is...those "permits and plans" are sure to inflate it to an unrealistic level.

Craig said...

Westside, did 528 26th sell yet? It looks much nicer than this place.

Anonymous said...

I hope these smug f#$%er's get what they deserve. A long agonizing wait and half what they're asking.

Anonymous said...

How much rent could I get for this property? I wouldn't buy this house unless I could rent it for an amount that would cover the mortgage, taxes and insurance. I wonder how much debt is on this property.

Craig said...

Rent would be somewhere in the $8-10K/month range I would guess. Which means that it is twice as expensive to pay the mortgage than it would be to rent (mortgage assumes $3million house, 6.5% interest only, 0% down)...

So a more "reasonable" value for this home would be less than $2 million. Anyone have the address on this place?

Westside Bubble said...

This address is 2320 Alta (it was in Frank's post). Second, 528 26th is still in the MLS as "Looking for Backup".

Craig said...

I'm not sure what is going on here but I will list the loans that I am seeing for this place:

Recorded Date: 6/3/1999
Lender: CITICORP MTG INC
Type of Mortgage: FIXED RATE/CONVENTIONAL
Loan Amount: $ 612,000
Additional Loan Amount(s): $ 76,500
Rate: 6.87 %
Term: 6/1/2029

Recording Date: 12/7/2000
Mortgage Type: NON-PURCHASE MONEY
Lender: CHASE MANHATTAN BK
Loan Amount: $ 200,000
Loan Type: CREDIT LINE (REVOLVING)

(Intra-Family Transaction)
Recorded Date: 3/18/2002
Lender: WELLS FARGO HOME MTG INC
Type of Mortgage: FIXED RATE/CONVENTIONAL
Loan Amount: $ 795,000
Rate: 6.50 %
Term: 4/1/2032

Recording Date: 9/9/2002
Mortgage Type: NON-PURCHASE MONEY
Lender: WELLS FARGO HOME MTG INC
Lender Type: MORTGAGE COMPANY
Loan Amount: $ 793,000
Loan Type: UNDETERMINED
Type of Financing: FIXED RATE
Interest Rate: 5.50 %

Recording Date: 10/28/2003
Mortgage Type: NON-PURCHASE MONEY
Lender: COUNTRYWIDE HOME LOANS INC
Lender Type: LENDING INSTITUTION
Loan Amount: $ 793,000
Loan Type: UNDETERMINED
Type of Financing: FIXED RATE

Recording Date: 2/17/2004
Mortgage Type: NON-PURCHASE MONEY
Lender: COUNTRYWIDE HOME LOANS INC
Lender Type: LENDING INSTITUTION
Loan Amount: $ 793,000
Loan Type: UNDETERMINED
Type of Financing: FIXED RATE
Interest Rate: 5.37 %

Recording Date: 11/14/2006
Mortgage Type: NON-PURCHASE MONEY
Lender: FIRST FEDERAL BANK OF CALIFORNIA
Lender Type: BANK
Loan Amount: $ 1,520,000
Loan Type: UNDETERMINED
Type of Financing: ADJUSTABLE RATE
Due Date: 12/1/2046

Ok so lets review. They bought with 10% down and had a 80% first with a 10% second mortgage. 1.5 years later they cash out $200K on a HELOC. 2 years later they do an intra-family transaction AND look like they are doing a cash out refi at the same time. So they eliminate the original first and second loans which are rolled into the $795K from Wells Fargo...meaning this could be over $100K that they took out here. 6 months later it looks like they refinanced to get a 1% reduction in interest rate. I could be wrong on that but thats what I'm thinking. A year later they refi again, this time with Countrwide for the same $793K to most likely take advantage of low rates. Then 4 months later it looks like they are doing it again...but I think this may be a duplicate recording or something. Finally, in late 2006 they go to our neg-am friends at First Fed. They take a 40 YEAR ADJUSTABLE!!! uh oh, couldn't handle a 30 year fixed anymore? or maybe this is a big bet on the fed having to cut rates and interest rates then falling...you decide. Either way, the First Fed loan is over $1.5 million...

My point in going through this is to show how pervasive the easy money lending has been...even people who bought "pre bubble" basically helped fuel this fire. We can also see why the banks made so much money, and lastely we can see why everyone in Santa Monica is driving a new luxury car...what are "real" people to do?

Anonymous said...

Craig - the original post says 2520 Alta, not 2320.

Craig said...

Yes anon, I realized that...don't worry, all of those loans are for 2520...2320 would be on 23rd...thanks though

Westside Bubble said...

Craig, can you find the current loan amounts on the recent attempted flips we've talked about here? Amount and loan type is enough. (I feel some sympathy for privacy, even if it is publicly-recorded data.)

12038 Culver Blvd., LA 90066
12566 Woodbine, LA 90066
2202 Marine, SM 90405
1036 22nd, SM 90403
2320 Idaho, SM 90403

Westside Bubble said...

Bad post link for Culver. It should be 12038 Culver Blvd., LA 90066 (I can only delete, not edit comments.)

Craig said...

12038 Culver. Previous owner had owned it for over 10 years but had done a bunch of refinancing...new owner loan details:

Recorded Date: 4/21/2006
Sale Price: $ 514,090
Lender: BANK OF AMERICA
Type of Mortgage: UNKNOWN
Loan Amount: $ 400,000
Term: 5/1/2036

AND HERE IS THE SECOND MORTGAGE
Recording Date: 4/21/2006
Mortgage Type: NON-PURCHASE MONEY
Lender: ********* (see note below)
Lender Type: PRIVATE PARTY (INDIVIDUAL)
Loan Amount: $ 63,500
Loan Type: UNDETERMINED

The lender for the second mortgage is the seller of the property (i.e. seller carrying back the second). WOW that guy is gunna get screwed!

Also, when looking to see if the buyer has been flipping other properties, it looks like they have been doing the flipping thing for several years and made money on a handful of previous flips. Most seem to be sold but here is one that looks like may still be theirs:
7831 DAVMOR AVE, STANTON, CA 90680

Here is another that they currently seem to own AND THAT THEY DID SELLER CARRY BACK FINANCING:
1563 W 219TH ST, TORRANCE, CA 90501

Wow...I found a few others as well where the seller did the financing (carry back)...it seems too odd that this person would be able to convince all the sellers to carry back each mortgage...something isn't right here. This may be one for OC Renter to tackle

Craig said...

12566 Woodbine (was purchased in the name of a trust)

Recorded Date: 3/20/2007
Lender: DOWNEY SAVINGS & LOAN ASSOCIATION FA
Type of Mortgage: UNKNOWN; ADJUSTABLE RATE
Loan Amount: $ 600,000
Rate: 6.00 %
Term: 4/1/2037

I can't find a second mortgage on this one...sometimes they are hard to find so I wouldn't necessarily rule it out. Either way, this one doesn't look fraudulent or anything. Rich stupidity?

Craig said...

2202 Marine

Recorded Date: 11/14/2005
Sale Price: $ 995,000
Lender: PFF BANK & TRUST
Type of Mortgage: FANNIE MAE/FREDDIE MAC; ADJUSTABLE RATE
Loan Amount: $ 796,000
Rate: 4.87 %
Term: 12/1/2035

Don't see a second or anything fishy here.

Craig said...

1036 22nd

Previous sale:
Recorded Date: 06/14/2005
Sale Price: $ 1,780,017 (Full Amount)

Lender: NO RED TAPE MORTGAGE
Type of Mortgage: FANNIE MAE/FREDDIE MAC; ADJUSTABLE RATE
Loan Amount: $ 1,335,000
Term: 7/1/2035
Title Company: CALIFORNIA TITLE COMPANY

Then...
SOLD SOLD SOLD!

Recorded Date: 5/4/2007
Lender: WASHINGTON MUTUAL BANK FA
Type of Mortgage: UNKNOWN; FIXED RATE/CONVENTIONAL
Loan Amount: $ 1,552,000
Rate: 6.75 %
Term: 5/1/2037

So we see that this place did recently sell but I can't figure out how much it sold for and I don't see a second mortgage from the sellers or from the buyer. Note the "NO RED TAPE MORTGAGE" as the mortgage company for the failed flippers. I suspect we may see a persian palace go up here

No fraud, just a possible loss for the previous owners (lets watch this and see if zillow or the county update the records with the sale amount).

Craig said...

2320 Idaho

Recorded Date: 4/4/2006
Lender: WELLS FARGO BANK NA
Type of Mortgage: FANNIE MAE/FREDDIE MAC; ADJUSTABLE RATE
Loan Amount: $ 1,000,000
Rate: 6.37 %
Term: 5/1/2036

Recording Date: 4/4/2006
Mortgage Type: NON-PURCHASE MONEY
Lender: WELLS FARGO BANK NA
Lender Type: BANK
Loan Amount: $ 201,500
Loan Type: CREDIT LINE (REVOLVING)
Due Date: 3/30/2046
Rate Change: MONTHLY

Recording Date: 8/15/2006
Mortgage Type: NON-PURCHASE MONEY
Lender: WELLS FARGO BANK NA
Lender Type: BANK
Loan Amount: $ 45,000
Loan Type: CREDIT LINE (REVOLVING)
Due Date: 6/27/2046

Recording Date: 9/28/2006
Mortgage Type: NON-PURCHASE MONEY
Lender: WASHINGTON MUTUAL BANK FA
Lender Type: BANK
Loan Amount: $ 1,500,000
Loan Type: BALLOON
Type of Financing: ADJUSTABLE RATE
Interest Rate: 7.76 %
Due Date: 10/1/2036

Recording Date: 9/28/2006
Mortgage Type: NON-PURCHASE MONEY
Lender: WASHINGTON MUTUAL BANK
Lender Type: BANK
Loan Amount: $ 100,000
Loan Type: STAND ALONE SECOND

This couple also owns 928 11th #1
They originally bought it 3 or more years ago but looks like they did an intra family deed to themselves which zillow picked up as the last sale. They also have owned some other places over these years.
zillow recording for 928 11th #1:
04/04/2006: $1,525,000

These look like typical flipper/speculators...will be interesting to see what happens with the place on Idaho as they are into it for at least $1.6 million in loans + any downpayment + remodeling costs + + +...I think this will be a loss at the end of the day.

Craig said...

Ok I'm done for now. Thanks for hosting this blog Westside.

Westsider said...

You go "Craig said" great job.

Anonymous said...

This morning, the sign re-appeared at the southwest corner of Carlyle and 26th, so apparently it doesn't refer to 2520 Alta. The homeowner is most likely placing the sign along 26th for maximum exposure...

Craig said...

So do I get a prize for guessing the rent when we talked about this before?

"Rent would be somewhere in the $8-10K/month range I would guess."

Looking at my guess before, I think anything above $8K might be a bit aggressive, so it will be interesting to see if they can get $8.5K

Anonymous said...

I wonder why they decided to rent instead of selling? Maybe they couldn't get the ridiculous price they were asking?